Plenty of work left for Everton this summer

Assuming we all agree that we need a new right back (despite having 2 already and O’Brien and Garner who can play there) then we need 6 players: RB, LB, CM, AM/LW, RWx2

I had expected us to use the free transfer market, given Roma have done so in recent years, but this seems not to be happening. You’re allowed to loan four players but I think it’s imprudent to loan more than two. So two loans, probably scope for two serious signings – this leaves us looking for a couple of bargains or unexpected youth promotions.

I’ve given up guessing what we’ll do. I’ve said before: I think there are fans on this website who were better prepared for this transfer window than the club were. Let’s see if they can get it all in place. After all, 6 players needed, 6 weeks of the window left. It should be doable, but at what cost to future PSR considerations?

Mike it seems unlikely we’ll get 6 players. Maybe 3 or 4.

Moyes will then have to juggle a small core squad and use versatile players like McNeil, Garner and O’Brien to cover injury gaps.

It will probably take two more summer windows before we have 2 players of decent quality for each position.

Dream window looks something like: Wesley at RB, Kubo at RW, Luiz at CM with a few cheaper players and loans (Brownhill, Lindstrom etc) to fill in.

A less aspirational but perhaps pragmatic window looks like: Soucek at CM, Fellowes at RW, Maitland-Niles at RB with a couple more squad players to fill.

Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle. But I’d be surprised if we don’t get at least 4 more players including loans.

Hugely successful window according to me could be something like this:

Incoming:

1. LB – Tagliafico. From an offensive pov we will be better on left.
2. RB – Wesley Franca or the Greek lad. We have good cover in that position
3. Douglas Luiz on loan with an option to buy. OR Neil Aynaoui from RC Lens
4. RW – James Mcatee and Tom Fellows both to sign.

Isaac Heath & Baiden Graham from reserves with few cameos on the wing for depth.

Outgoing –

Chermiti (loan) – Loan to a good club in championship or other leagues
Patterson – 6-7 million if anybody wants him
Armstrong – Loan to a good club in championship
Martin Sheriff and Omari Benjamin can be sent out on loan

Dick’s Dock Dave?

Dixies’s Dock surely?

New stadium. New owners. New structure. New optimism but some things don’t change. We are always slow to do our business. We continually get linked with players and then the rumours just peter out. We end up starting the season slowly and are playing catch-up around October. We’ll be hoping to do some last-minute business on deadline day. Rinse and repeat.

Why can’t we scout players in the way that the likes of Brentford or Brighton seem to do?

I know it’s July and we shouldn’t get too down but Moyes’ teams traditionally started slowly during his first tenure. We used to think we didn’t do our business early so Bill could save on the wages.

With Mbeumo now set for Man Utd, I wonder if they would sell Amad Diallo, who I would have thought would be a brilliant signing for us.

Pace work rate and quality on the right flank.

Expect Harrison back. He’d be the interpreter and back up tea lady.

Coufal (what’s his dead ball like?) and Soucek (could be useful with the other big lads for a corner or free kick).

Questions have to be asked if that happens. Especially with these players being linked.

It’ll be lack of funds, or we’re simply not attractive. Despite the new stadium.

Please prove me wrong.

All 4 of these players pictured would transform the first team.

All the interesting deals take place in the last 5 days.

That’s just the way the market works unless you’re prepared to pay over the odds.

For how much though, Robert?

I don’t think he’d come cheaply.

Have Brighton and Brentford signed more players than us this window?

Seems to me we’re doing more business than most but still being destroyed on TW.

Brentford are about to lose Wissa, Mbeumo and have lost Noorgard who they’ve replaced with Henderson. They’ve also lost their manager.

Remind me why we are doing so much worse than these teams in this window?

Dave Roberts. Well said.

Can anyone explain why, once identified, it takes so ridiculously long to sign a player?

Just target those who want to come without having to waste time persuading them.

Sean #9, talking of Coufal’s dead balls I just read Charlie Adams saying that the reason he failed at Everton was ‘cos McNeil was injured and he’s the only dead ball specialist we have.

Si, considering Brighron and Brentford finished so far above us maybe they just don’t need to improve their squad as much as we do? And by so many signings?

Robert@8, I love Diallo. That’s a player I’d rather spend £40m on than Hutchinson.

Sadly, I doubt he’d be available but a conversation worth having. Garnacho is more likely to leave.

Ryan, now he’s let the cat out of the bag everyone is going to add £20 million on to every player we ask about.

But then, if he knew what he was talking about why is he quoting Travers as our only signing?

Doesn’t he read the papers he writes for?

Eric #16.

Charlie Adam was always a weird one. He looks like he’s been to Greggs and downed 15 pints.

Surely it was his job to train the likes of Garner and Mykolenko?
He was a waste of time. And he’s a RS.

Sean, that’s kinda what I thought. Surely he can train players in delivery of dead balls? Not just in strategy of dead ball situations.

Maybe it’s an instinct thing but surely something a professional footballer can learn the mechanics of and execute without the flair?

What, they sell beer at Greggs?

Do you have to buy the sausage roll each time?

Si (13), mostly because they haven’t lost 12-13 players like we have. They’ve already got a squad and their objective is to maintain or improve it.

We had 12 players at one point. Our objective is to have a squad at all and without 5 more incomings we’ll have failed.

This is why I can’t understand those calling for Harrison and Chermiti to go on loan – unless we sign replacements in addition to the 5-6 we already need then we can’t afford to lose them and should be looking to use them.

James #21,

Wetherspoons next door.

Eric (16),

I thought I read, before he came here, that Alcaraz could take a tidy free kick but, apart from the very good one he took v Bournemouth that hit the post from about 30 yards in the FA Cup game, I don’t think he was used in that department.

We’ve been linked with so many players.

The one which has me worried is Harrison, after his performance last season, let’s hope Moyes leaves him at Leeds.

Dave @ 5,

Bramley-Moore for me all day long, the only ones I’ve heard calling it Dick’s Dock are the redshite supporters trying to take the piss out of us.

They are right cards with their hilarious humour, those Reds, Billy.

What with Tarby, Stan Boardman and the not unfunny John Bishop, they have a fine pedigree. Such wags.

Liam,

Firstly, John Bishop isn’t funny. He makes me cringe.

I don’t know what it is with them, but for some reason, we really get under their skin.

Despite their recent success, there seems to be an increasing sense of jealousy and resentment. Wait until we win something.

Clickbait site reporting Everton are in ‘pole position’ to sign Atletico Madrid RW Samuel Lino on a free transfer.

Apparently, they say, he has ‘scored more goals than Jack Harrison in fewer games’.

The older I get, the more I couldn’t care less what the RS do, say or think, Danny.

Apart from their comedians who are side splitting (honestly).

I keep seeing Grealish connected to us on loan.

Just can’t ever see him in an Everton shirt.

That Independent article is rather unhelpful. I can’t imagine Moyes finds it useful to have his budget trumpeted from the rooftops.

I hope this isn’t Angus getting his retaliation in if we end up not spending much.

West Ham just signed Kyle Walker-Peters for free. That’s three defenders they have signed this week, while we are fuckingg about waiting for the last 10 minutes of the transfer window.

I even heard Moyes has bought a bottle of window cleaner so he doesn’t miss anything when the window is closing. Must be the smallest squad size in the Premier League.

I’ve had some of this “dickory dock” stuff off them.

I just point out how well the walls have been built and that no one is pushing them over. Has the desired effect.

Jake 31.

“I keep seeing Grealish connected to us on loan. Just can’t ever see him in an Everton shirt.”

I can see him in an Everton blanket, sitting on his arse on the bench after he’s fallen over so many times he’s had to come off before he really hurts himself. I can see him doing another con man act as Alli did, and picking up a big wage for doing fuck-all.

Billy 26,

You know what we should do?

Ban all and every red bastard from BMD. Don’t let the fuckers in ever, not even for a piss, now that would really fuck them up.

Can we do that?

I’m not sure why we would get concerned about what West Ham are doing. I’m more bothered with what Everton do.

Let’s see what happens this month. And being in the US won’t stop negotiations.

I won’t use the derogatory “D” word, as I know that offends a few. But what most of us know is that Moyes is careful, cautious and considerate when he looks at potential signings.

I’m not getting over-excited by other clubs’ signings. Who knows how they will work out? I’m more concerned by what Everton bring in.

What’s more worrying than the lack of incomings is the quality of players we are being associated with.

There isn’t one player that you would say “wow” too.

Strange one about Kyle Walker-Peters going to West Ham rather than us, but there again maybe we weren’t interested, which again is strange as he can cover left- as well as right-back, two players in one, which you thought would have been ideal in our predicament?

Maybe we will suddenly have the new signings stacked up and have one revealed each day for a week.

Okay, I fantasize… but we all know we have to get the business done asap as, to hit the ground running for when the season starts, we don’t want to be playing catch up.

Martin @39, read previous.

He’s from London. Grew up in London. The moment a London club was in for him, it would probably have swayed his decision and undoubtedly been a factor.

We need quality and not quantity to be able to push up the league which then will hopefully attract some of the top professionals to the club as we would be playing in Europe. If we keep signing has-beens, we will never progress.

The top clubs just mop up all the talent which leaves clubs like us picking up the scraps. Hence we need a much better youth policy and then we can hopefully hang onto the Rooneys of this world.

With all due respect to those worrying, this may be a market effect rather than a reflection on Everton’s efforts to sign players.

With Forest, Newcastle, and to some extent Bournemouth, threatening the top positions in the Premier League, there are more teams considering ambitious transfer plans. Germany and Spain also have packs of smaller clubs chasing top positions, while Italy have largely shuffled the top except for Bologna.

This, along with our need to not bring troubled talent into a small squad, means we will not be quick to pen and paper unless the long term interests line up well, as with Barry.

In my unlearned opinion on transfers, it is actually a good approach to rebuilding the core of a competitive squad. Players who need to reestablish themselves or push on to the next level will see us as a reliable station. The troubled stars and payday players will gamble on London clubs and the like.

Liam,

John Bishop is about as funny as having a red hot poker rammed up your japs eye!

A few weeks ago, someone put the stats up about the goals conceded when Kyle Walker-Peters was in the Southampton team in the last 3 years.

Dithering is probably less the reason than the stats.

Walker-Peters to West Ham is a strange move.

He isn’t getting ahead of Bissaka or new left-back Diouf, or Emerson.

According to The Bobble “Everton are to add a further game to their pre-season schedule.

A behind-closed-doors friendly is to take place against Port Vale at the club’s new Hill Dickinson Stadium.”

Pete 47.

As long as Ian Bogie isn’t playing.

Danny #37,

Obviously no Evertonian cares about what West Ham do: it’s only in relation to Everton and if it affects us.

Surely that’s 100% obvious??

I think we may used to the idea of some Sky spoofer outside Hill Dickinson Stadium with the lights off, telling us of some paperwork caught in the fax machine.

Last-minute deals is what we do to save wages for 2 months. Whether it’s Dithering Davey or the ghost of the sly one, who knows… but there will be disappointment.

Dream on, fellow Evertonians; we apparently have the dosh but those with it have deep pockets and short arms.

Really, Sean? Is that why we just signed an exciting young striker for £27M and dished out a new 5-year contract for our star young centre-back instead of selling him as the previous regime probably would have?

Seems to me they’re reaching for that dosh just fine.

Mike #52,

Some people are still amused by the standard boring old troupes.

Yes, Mike, but we also let go nearly half a dozen players. We all know what we need and are grateful for getting Barry and Travers in the door.

We need to get a move on to get the players up to speed and not be starting the season with players missing a pre-season and only getting up to speed by October.

Roy Keane’s “Fail to prepare; prepare to fail” comes to mind.

Bobby @56, I think you have to put that into context mate.

The 3 clubs you mention are offering Champions League football and will be challenging for the title next season.

They naturally can do business quicker.

We will take more time convincing a player that Everton is a good move and it will require negotiation.

Tony @55, Mykolenko really improved in the second half of last season, especially going forward, which had been lacking from his game previously.

The lobbed cross in the derby that led to Tarkowski’s equaliser. His goal from inside the box against Fulham and his cross for Alcaraz to nod home against Newcastle.

If Ryan’s link to the Independent is correct and we have a budget of £150m – then we’ve already spent £45m (ish) of that on Barry, Alcaraz and Travers – with roughly £100m left to spend.

What could we get with that?

Hutchinson – £35m ish
McAtee – £25m ish
Wesley – £22m ish
Soucek – £12m ish
Coufal – free

That sort of spending would give us a hell of a lift – with 5 players of real youth / quality who could form the basis of a really good team for the next 10 years. In addition, Premier League experience in Travers, Soucek and Coufal to provide cover at low cost.

We still wouldn’t have two players for every position, but we’d just about have enough. Other positions could be addressed in future windows.

I’d like us to bring in Kubo, McAtee, Wesley, Ivanovic from Millwall as the third striker with Chermiti loaned, and Douglas Luiz on a loan with an obligation to buy the following summer.

If we have a £150m budget and have spent £45m so far, we could do that and would be transformed into a top half side.

Pep was pretty vocal about having a group of 21 to 23 senior players I think. Keeping all the other fringe players happy would be an issue.

I can see us getting maybe 3 players in and hoping that we go ok with injuries. I can’t see Moyes leaving O’Brien or Tarkowski on the bench if they’re fit which makes me think that a starting full-back wouldn’t be top priority. Similarly, if Garner and Gana are fit they start with Iroegbunam and Harrison as back-up.

Again, if they’re all fit then Ndiaye, Alcaraz and McNeil probably start. I think we are looking at squad players that can contribute rather than starters. It’s a risk to have a small squad but I can see it happening.

We won’t be playing much more than the 40 games this season most likely (I would love a cup run of course). I can see us getting a few more.

Another midfielder (depending on how ready Moyes feels Harrison is) and an attacking option that can play either side… any of Ndiaye, Alcaraz and McNeil can play the central role if needed.

I suspect the club are looking for versatile options to fill in the gaps where needed. The recruitment so far looks sensible and measured to me.

Mike (22) are there any of the players we’ve let go you would have kept? Not for me.

Getting rid or letting them go was the right thing to do. Included in that list was two keepers that barely played and the likes of Holgate who was out on loan anyway.

The only players getting regular minutes were Doucoure and Young. Both of whom were much maligned.

There’s a month left of the window. So far our business has been the best outside the Champions League clubs. We will sign more players, don’t worry about that.

Letting absolute dross on high wages go is what we absolutely should be doing. Doing due diligence and taking our time on who we sign to make us a better team is also what we should be doing. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

You can’t have the argument both ways. You say they’ve already got a squad and their objective is to maintain or improve it.

Well, Brentford are in the process of gutting their club. Not maintaining and certainly not improving it. But you’re still using them as a stick to beat us with.

I’ve said it a billion times.

Spend £500M signing the best 5-6 achievable talents in the world and take a 9-point hit in a few years.

We took a points deduction when we were down and out and for signing utter dross.

Sign some big hitters now and if we start qualifying for Champions League we may not even breach PSR.

Or do what Newcastle intend on doing. Sign someone for ridiculous money (Isak) and then sell him on for almost double that ridiculous money.

Put it this way: if you sign Soucek for £10M, that’s a cast-iron £10M loss.

If you sign a midfielder for £60M and are forced to sell him in 18 months time because he’s so good for £70M, that’s £10M profit.

OK Tommy #65

I’ll only say it once we’ll take the “hit” pretty much immediately.

Tommy #67, ‘cos the Premier League have committed to looking at PSR breaches in the season they happen?

Although accounts are a year late so there is a delay unless they apply a points deduction retrospectively.

Oh, and that commitment only applies to Everton, by the way.

We definitely have priorities in other positions as we’ve also got Nathan Patterson and Seamus Coleman (who are both injury prone). Kubo, Grealish and McAtee should be the main priorities. I would go in with a double swoop on Man City, taking Grealish and McAtee, £60M for them both.

Apparently, the Kubo fee I’ve seen is €30M. Douglas Luiz in the middle. Go back the Argentine left-back; I don’t see why the media are suggesting he was on big wages — €70k a week. I believe Ndiaye is pissed-off regarding us being linked with Jacob Ramsey.

Paul @70,

Of course it isn’t, Paul. But signing players like Tomas Soucek takes us absolutely nowhere.

Moyes always hid behind money being the thing that stopped him bringing any success to Everton prior to 2013.

Jay @38 the reason we aren’t signing players anyone would say “wow” about is because a) we can’t afford those players and more importantly b) they wouldn’t want to come to us, they go to bigger and better teams.

I also find it strange we weren’t more heavily linked with Kyle Walker-Peters and felt he would have improved us whilst being on a free. I would be disappointed with Coufal, I keep hoping there are legs in the Wesley links.

Luiz in the middle (loan, obligation to buy) to play alongside Gana. Wesley, Tagliafigo on a free and Diallo or Dibling (though these two would seriously stretch the budget at £40M). That is my top budget, gettable wish-list.

Eric, it’s why I took time earlier in the thread to point out that we have a core of players (7), who’s average age works out at 23.

Then we have experience in Pickford, Tarkowski and Gana. There is nothing wrong with a bit of experience. Those 3 were very important to us in recent seasons.

Whether we are going to sign Soucek or it is just lazy journalism, will be seen. I wouldn’t be overwhelmed, but then I wouldn’t be offended.

He’s 30, not 40. He has more than a few seasons left in him.

Sean @72, your list seems to be based on if you were Everton manager for a day, which is fair enough. We don’t know if they are Moyes’ priorities or targets.

Probably the only one I’ve seen with tentative decent links is McAtee and that’s more that he is probably going to leave City. But there will no doubt be competition, and likely from clubs offering European football.

I take no pleasure in saying it, but our best hopes would be that he is a northwest home boy (Salford born) and he can be convinced by the club’s ambition. Otherwise the likes of Villa and Tottenham could be in the mix.

It will be out-of-contract players or loaners. Maybe one signing on delayed payments. It will be last-minute and Everton may or may not get their man.There is no way 6 players are going to be signed. It will probably be someone Moyes has experience off.

I would like to see a youthful squad developed like Chelsea., but Moyes is a long way off Maresca, who is showing Arteta a clean pair of heels.

Then again, Jerome, in addition to what I’ve already pointed out about having a very good core of young players, we have signed a 22-year-old forward prospect and a young backup keeper (yes, 26 is young for a keeper).

I don’t get concerned with sprinkling a bit of experience around the younger players. They learn from it. Branthwaite and O’Brien benefited from playing with Tarkowski. Likewise, Jimmy Garner alongside Gana.

We have done it to good effect over the years. Andy Gray, Paul Power, more recently Gareth Barry. There are probably more examples.

It’s not like we’re in the Walter Smith days of signing not just ageing, but broken players.

In terms of an approach to experience vs youth I don’t think it should be rocket science to emulate the likes of Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth.

Brighton spent the vast majority of their money on younger players with resale value like Joao Pedro, Baleba, Estupinan, Caciedo, Cucurella, Rutter, Minteh, Wieffer, O’Riley, Tzimas etc but then they also bring in a handful of experienced players on freebies or cheap deals like Welbeck, Veltman, Milner as well as some academy mainstays like Dunk and Solly March.

A sprinkling of experience is important but ideally you want to be spending the majority of your money on players with potential.

Sam @79.

Brentford and Brighton have been good models over the past few seasons.

We talk about glass ceilings and I wonder if those clubs, along with Bournemouth, have hit theirs?

With Brentford currently being the closest Premier League club to where I presently live, I know a couple of local Bees supporters in amongst the mainly Chelsea ones around here.

They are really concerned with the departure of Thomas Frank and probably loss of a few key players.

I know the club is well run, but Frank has been very fundamental to their rise on the pitch. It will be interesting to see how they go under a different head coach. I hope not, but I can see them struggling next season.

Yes, Danny, people suggest that Brighton and Brentford have good models but it’s only true as far as recruitment is concerned. If you buy low and sell high, eventually you run out of quality recruits to replace those being sold. You end up like Southampton being relegated.

Much though I admire Brighton and Brentford for the way they unearth and polish rough diamonds, I’d hate to support a team where you know the owners will sell their assets at the earliest opportunity just to make a quick buck. This shows the club is being run as a money making business rather than a club with ambition.

Emulate the recruitment model by all means, but hang on to the crown jewels (Branthwaite) where possible.

Having said all that it’s difficult when you’ve got the “big” clubs hovering, looking to asset strip.

My prediction is that Brighton will get relegated within the next 5 years. Brentford may well go that way sooner.

Great! follow the Brighton, Brentford & Bournemouth model? No thank you.

Finish in the top 10 one year then mid to lower table the next as the club sells the best players. The only ‘success’ in this is filling the owner’s bank account.

We are Everton — not a Premier League pretender.

Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton are very well run clubs.

Their recruitment and transfer policy allows them to remain in the Premier League when commercially they shouldn’t be near it.

They are not the model for us. A better comparison is Aston Villa.

But what is this Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth model?

1. use of sister clubs (as per Brighton) – also used by Man City with Troyes, Girona and others (which is how they developed Savinho).

2. heavy youth player (i.e. under 17s) acquisitions – very much used by City, Chelsea and the RS amongst others.

3. heavy use of the loan market to develop players – again, yes, all of the big boys do this. Villa, for example, had something like 25 players out on loan last year.

4. sell to buy (as per Brighton, Brentford and Bournemouth) – very much used by City and the RS for example – the former has generated getting on for £500m in youth player sales. Link The RS make a nice tidy profit too on a long list of players too. Both clubs (as per many others) buy youth players with no expectation they will play for the first team – they are just grooming them for sale.

5. hunting for value in lower cost markets (some overseas, some close to home) – again, yes, look at Man City and the use of low cost markets of late – Nypan from Norway, Echeverri from Argentina etc etc (it’s a long list).

6. use of data analytics as per Brighton – yes this is what transformed the RS when Klopp was persuaded to adopt it – and their recruitment has since gone up a notch. As per pretty much every successful club these days.

None of these clubs’ models are identical. But doing something along the lines of a “Brighton” is not a small club thing to do – it’s a big club thing to do. It is the only way to manage your own precious resources effectively and build up a stable of high quality players over a sustained period without hitting PSR or financial buffers.

One club who has not embraced this is Man Utd and their fortunes has dwindled significantly as a result.

Villa meanwhile have done some of the “Brighton” (and also Man City) style business but also gambled – and look set to have a very difficult summer and a difficult short term future as a result.

So I don’t think we should be at all concerned about following the Brighton model – because it’s just a lower cost version (in many respects) of how City, Chelsea, the RS and Arsenal etc etc are running their operations.

Villa is a better comparison to Everton, Steve, in terms of history and stature as well as experiencing ups and down, theirs probably worse than ours.

They also did a really good job on the redevelopment of Villa Park, although it is currently limited to a 43,000 capacity. They do however have plans to increase to around 50,000 with the redevelopment of one of the stands.

Liverpool as a city has a track record of producing a batch of international class footballers every decade. It has a track record of producing potentially world class footballers every generation.

Identifying these players and making them Everton players will be the key to any success. Nearly all successful football teams in Europe as far back as ever have always had a core of local players.

That’s why teams such as Liverpool, Manchester Utd, Barcelona, Milan, Ajax, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Juventus etc etc always will be successful.

In the 90s, Liverpool got well ahead of us in terms of recruiting local talent. I would argue we potentially got ahead of them a decade or so later.

We need to make this the cornerstone of our football club. Incentivise the best young scousers to play for our club and make them want to stay.

Why does anyone give a Donald about players we are or aren’t ‘associated with’?

My Google feed is full of the guesswork articles by ‘news’ websites, before they’re cut & pasted onto here.

No Champions League, no European football, no recent success puts us down many players’ lists. We can tell them about our potential, new stadium, the fact they’d have more chance of getting a game (and showcase for their next move) here.

I say it every summer. Ignore the clickbait sites. Will we have a better squad at the start of the season and end of the transfer window? That’s the question. Let’s see who they come up with.

Some very good points, Robert, but the differences between Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford and the big clubs is that the latter do not have to – or choose not to – sell all the players that they have developed. If they’re any good, they keep them.

Brighton, for instance would have sold Salah, Van Dijk, Branthwaite etc purely to maximise profit. Chelsea, Liverpool, and Man City can nurture talent and then choose whether or not to sell them.

Chelsea do it to excess such that it’s basically player trafficking. But all the clubs know that they can spend £100M on a proven player.

It seems to me that Brighton just nurture talent for financial gain and have no real ambition – other than just an odd cup run. You can’t go on selling the best talent and hope to succeed or even survive long term.

Tommy @84,

You are accurate in that. I am a big believer in the City of Liverpool being a hotbed of footballing talent.

I am always cautious about use of the phrase World Class. That is reserved for very few players in my view.

What you say is correct, however those local players, many of them boyhood Evertonians, who played for Liverpool in the 90s, were part of one the most average Liverpool teams I’ve seen in-between their 70s-80s domination and more recent success. I think they won an FA Cup and League Cup in that period.

Bayern are an interesting one. A lot of their academy players are poached from other German clubs or the likes of Croatia, so not all home grown Bavarians. Their success has largely been built through big transfers.

Ajax and Schalke have had great academies over the years, mostly populated with local players from Amsterdam and Gelsenkirchen.

But they used them as cash cows. Ajax, sacrificed their previous European success, Schalke went a step too far and ended up tier 2 of German football as the well dried up.

Iain @80, we are indeed Everton. We have been mired in relegation battles for the last few years. We have a weak squad. History doesn’t entitle you to anything, I’m afraid.

Right now, Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth are ahead of us. Perhaps Brentford may struggle this season without Frank and Mbuemo, perhaps not.

Ultimately out aim may be to outstrip all of these clubs but the first step is catching up.

We clearly cannot go straight to the level of Man City or Arsenal or probably even Villa. We have to start by building the value of the squad and getting ourselves up the table. That means following the approach of spending primarily on young talent with potential and a smattering of experience where needed.

Ray # 86, I think you’re conflating two different things.

The model (ie, the way of assembling a high quality squad) is more or less the same regardless of the size of club. It is something along the 6 principles I said earlier.

Whether you can then hang onto your best players is a different point and depends on bargaining power / commercial revenue etc.

Since we should soon be richer than Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford – we should be able to hold onto our best players for longer, giving us more stability and a better chance of success.

However, there will still be a tier of richer clubs above us with bigger commercial revenues – and we will be vulnerable to having our best players taken from us now and again.

But that doesn’t change the fact that the model is the right one. If there’s any of those 6 principles we shouldn’t be following then I’d be really interested to know why it’s not for us?

Point 4 Robert. Sell to buy. If we adopted that one, we’d have sold Branthwaite.

I’d like to think that, if we buy emerging talent, that we’d do our utmost to keep it. Sell if we have to for survival (Rooney) or PSR reasons (Gordon) but not purely for financial gain.

I’m uncertain what Brighton’s motives are. Progression, survival or maximising financial gain?

I agree with Tommy and Danny, but would like to add that we should also spend more money on recruiting the best coaches to teach our younger players.

I remember Andy Murray won Wimbledon, and reading about the difference in pay between the coaches who coached the English and Polish tennis players that year.

Murray was the success story, but he was the only real one, which didn’t stop the English coaches earning 500% more than their Polish counterparts even though the Poles had four different players who reached the last eight.

Ray # 90 – there are a few versions of buy to sell.

As I said in the original post, the RS and City both buy to sell very heavily. They buy a high volume of youth players and sell them for profit. City to the tune of near £500m (as the link I included). This enables them to keep spending on the first team.

I know you mean buy to sell in first team terms.

But whether we sell top quality first teamers is not down to a model – it is determined by our financials. If the takeover had not gone through we would have had to sell Branthwaite (as per Gordon, Richarlison, Onana etc in recent years).

Keeping Branthwaite was enabled by TFG’s financial clout, not by our “model” (we don’t really have a model right now as we’ve been living hand to mouth for nearly 5 years).

Until we get rich we will have to sell our best players at some point, whatever model we adopt. So it seems to make sense to adopt a model which allows us to replace those we sell more effectively, because we will sell at some point if the players become exceptional enough to attract offers from current Champions League royalty.

Which is no different to the RS a few years ago who were forced to sell their best players in Coutinho and Suarez – but their bargaining power / financial position meant they could hang onto them for longer and sell them at a higher price than might otherwise have been the case.

@87

Robbie Fowler and Steve McManaman were top class players and both far better than any player we had during that period.

To your point on World Class. Rooney was World Class.

Tony (91) ,

I don’t think Andy Murray would appreciate being referred to as English!

UK yes, but Andy is a proud Scot and definitely not English.

British when he wins and Scottish when he loses, John.

The Polish coaches only got paid 20% of their British counterparts, even though they had a much better overall success rate.

Okay Robert #92. If it helps clear things up.

I do not want our policy, whatever it may become, to be one where we just sell players to extract maximum profit. Which to be fair, appears to be the “everyone is for sale” one that Brighton seem to have adopted. Sooner or later that goes belly up.

There again, their owner is a high-stakes poker player! I do not want to support a business enterprise, I want a club with ambition. Hopefully, TSG see it that way too.

I see where Harrison is starting for Leeds today.

Hopefully that’s where he’ll stay.

Danny #78

That core of 7 players is progress, with Barry as a new signing. Moyes will be more orientated to a core of experienced players.

Maresca has been bobbing about the Premier League relying on a core of young players. They blew hot and cold, but eventually got it together. Other young players have been recently added. Moyes will want mid-table security and then to challenge.

The difference is building for the future to challenge, against staying mid-table and progressing one to three places above that. If Moyes had’ve signed Delap, he would not have been on the bench.

Yes indeed Ray # 98. What I want for the club is titles, trophies and champions league runs etc. We won’t get there without assembling and hopefully keeping an exceptional group of players.

Which is why I thought aiming to follow the Villa route was a bit of a peculiar idea because of the richest 8 clubs they have achieved the least – and things are now in danger of falling apart there. I’d rather set my sights higher.

I didn’t think anyone wanted our policy to be selling players for maximum profit. The policy is to buy low, sell high. Selling one enables you to buy 3-4 and you end up with more depth. It’s a long game but the only sustainable one.

The difference with us vs Brighton is that they’re as good right now as they can ever be, whereas we can be a team that is right at the top if we get things right. I believe people call it a ‘higher ceiling’.

If a small club like Chelsea can be World Club Champions, there’s nothing we can’t do.

I think what concerns me, still, is how long we seem to need to get each single deal done. Admittedly Travers was quicker than usual, but it took forever to get Thierno Barry over the line. Even though, I’m sure, work is ongoing on multiple potential acquisitions, the “feeling” is Everton can only manage one at once.

Contrast with the promoted sides, Sunderland and Leeds in particular, who appear able to conclude multiple signings simultaneously – I don’t know if the players they are buying are good enough, but they are signing unheralded (to me at least) players from good European leagues, for not insane prices, and quickly.

I understand it’s not easy, that we still have to be financially watchful and that some of our new recruitment structure haven’t started work yet. I don’t expect the full squad revamp to take place in this window, but if we don’t have at least a RW, CM, RB and LB in by early August, we will start the season undermanned, one or two injuries away from horrible square pegs in round holes again, and playing catch up on the rest of the league once more.

I’d rather we aim to go faster. If we keep waiting 5 years, we’ll always be waiting 5 years.

The slow build can go on in the the background.

But nothing breeds success than success. Then you build on it from a stronger position.

Mark, every club’s fans think that. I feel like we have this conversation every year.

You follow the Everton transfers from clickbait rumours to complete deal and are impatient to have it finalised. Therefore it feels to you like it takes a long time.

You have no idea what Leeds or Sunderland are up to until it’s announced, so it seems to you to have been done quickly out of nowhere.

Meanwhile their fans are annoyed how long it has taken to get Sean Longstaff over the line, whilst wishing they could get things done quickly, like Everton did with that French lad they’ve just signed out of nowhere…

Mike 103. Why do you consider Chelsea a ‘small club’?

What is this weird mentality that exists amongst Everton fans that success is only relevant and determinant of size and stature if it exists in the distant past rather than the present?

Mike #106

Stop being logical, don’t let facts get in the way of my imagined rant. 😅

Ray 108.

Football honours are irrelevant as soon as you win them. You parade the trophy and then you get on with winning the next thing.

Clinging on to the past is why Everton are shit and why they have fans making bizarre claims about the biggest club in London being a ‘small club’.

Danny # 105

I don’t really get that perspective.

If we build up to having a very high quality squad in 5 years then why wouldn’t we get there? It seems eminently possible after all – even the 14 year old GK we’ve just bought from the RS for £200k could be making his debut in 5 years. Had we built for the long term with the initial Moshiri spending then we can at least expect to be where Newcastle and Villa have reached recently as a minimum.

That then gives you the success to breed from, as you put it.

I’m not sure how you expect us to achieve success without having a very good team in the first place. Perhaps we are supposed to assemble a fine side simply by spending this summer’s kitty wisely. That, I am afraid, is more along the lines of alchemy than reality.

There are bargains to be had out there – but it is impossible to “beat the market” with every single purchase you make – somehow buying a ready-made Champions League quality player for well below the normal price of a Champions League quality player.

Different perspectives Robert. You know I respect your views and your meticulous detail on players I’ve often heard nothing about. But on this subject, we differ.

5 years is a long time. We can go quicker whilst building behind the scenes.

We didn’t wait for no-one in the dark days of 1983 and literally turned it around in a month. And only the tragic events of 1985 prevented that side from establishing itself as one of Europe’s greats.

I keep saying, we’re not going back to the reckless Moshiri days. The owners won’t allow it. I always get your point about the best spend hundreds of millions.

We can’t and won’t do that right now, but we can invest wisely and shrewdly. As I keep saying, how you spend, not what you spend. But there has to be a balance and a focus on now.

We lost key players and couldn’t attract those good enough to replace them, even though we won a 2nd league title, nearly a 3rd.

Wait 5 years and others will overtake or those that used to sit below us move further away.

We have the core of a very good team. It just needs those additions we have all done to death on here and we will be competing again.

I just don’t see where the reticence and fear is. Be brave and bold and do it sooner rather than in 5 years.

Jake, I am talking about returning to the top echelons of the Premier League – I agree that we should be competing for Europe and cups in the meantime.

But starting from a position where we have the smallest squad in the Premier League by some distance – with a squad currently rated by Transfermarkt as 17th (but closer to Leeds and Burnley in 18th and 19th than Wolves in 16th) – doesn’t scream quick turnaround.

That is very different to the position Forest started from last season – with a very big squad and heavy year on year spending.

I know that is disappointing – and I know it would be nice to believe we can buy a few free transfers, loans and a rejuvenate a few faded stars like, say, Grealish and Luiz, but we would have to have incredible luck to do that. I’d rather put in place a good strategy to build up an exceptional squad as soon as possible (even if it takes a few years) – rather than rely on luck.

Danny @ 112,

I think the difference in perspective is between those of us who have seen success (and know what it took to achieve it), and supporters who have not seen us win trophies. I admire the latter supporters a lot, and they include my two sons.

I agree that waiting more 5 years for a trophy is not acceptable. If our fans have not witnessed us winning trophies, the years of waiting is most unfair on you all. The club doesn’t deserve 5 more years of your patience.

We need and expect success in the next 2-3 years.

I don’t think it’s about waiting; it’s about giving us our best shot. Moshiri tried to buy instant success and we went backwards.

We can’t persuade the very best players to come here. But we can persuade players who we believe or hope will improve us now but may also be the best in 2/3 years time. Players like Thierno Barry hopefully.

If these players do become top class then inevitably some of them will want to move or be subject to ludicrous offers; in which case you repeat the process.

Mark, sorry mate, don’t know what I was thinking.

Grant, when I grew up, Chelsea was a small club. You used to be able to see the parked cars in the ground like it was non-league. Everything they’ve done has come in the last 30 years.

The ‘small club’ thing comes down to fanbase and history. They had no history of success until the 90s, one league title before Abramovic and still have a stadium smaller than lots of other clubs despite billions of pounds of investment.

Steve # 116, I don’t think I am saying anything different to that. I don’t think building proper foundations for long term success are mutually exclusive with trying to win a cup or get into Europe in the short term.

If we have a good summer window – there is a chance we could even sneak Europe this coming season. The chance improves with each year of proper spending (after a sustained period of extreme negative investment and cost-cutting) as we naturally overtake smaller clubs who’ve been outspending us of late – and gain ground on more established clubs.

I would be very disappointed if we’re not properly / routinely competing for cups and Europe in 3 years. That is eminently possible.

However, I don’t want that to be it.

I want us to have done much more to build a squad capable of winning titles and Champions League runs etc. That will probably take longer – but is something we can build to if we put the right foundations in now.

I am just not convinced we are doing anything different. That we didn’t bust a gut on the first day of the window was a bad omen.

That we weren’t in advanced discussions with players or already made deals with, with their clubs’ approval of course, or battered the out-of-contract market successfully (you get 12 months notice on that one) just shows to me that it’s the same old same old. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

We needed players in. Everyone at the club knew it. Mass exodus or not, we needed a good start. Flat and shit is what we have so far.

All this talk of buying future prospects does my head in too. We have them. They’re on the bench and don’t come on.
We’ve had them and the majority flopped.

Moyes is failing. Where rivals are not. He had better get his arse into gear and get some bloody good players in soon or he will be alongside all the other dismal failures of the last 30+ years on my ever-expanding dartboard!

Steve @116, with you on that point. I too have a son and younger family members who have had nothing. And when I see those young supporters and their devotion, at, for example, Selhurst Park on a cold rainy night, I have nothing but admiration. I might as well sit down and leave them to it as I’m surplus to requirements!

Mike @118, I wouldn’t say Chelsea were a small club. They always had a decent support base, but you are right about Stamford Bridge back in the day. It was awful. One stand, which is still there, but apart from a part cover on the Shed End, all pretty much open decaying terracing with a running track around the pitch. Until the 2000s, they had only won one league title in the 50s.

There is another club like that. Newcastle. I went to St James’ Park in 1988. Again, they had one stand, which is the only remaining feature of that stadium from that era. The rest was open terracing, including the famous Gallowgate End.

We were tucked in the corner on crumbling terracing behind the goal, with what I would describe as one of those temporary golf like stands to our left.