Resilient All-Blacks steal a draw at Brighton from the jaws of defeat

I’d be more worried with O’Brien at right-back than Patterson.

Mitoma will tear O’Brien a new one.

Wow!

Never saw that coming: Giants at the back…

Branthwaite left back!

I share Mick’s trepidation @1, what his logic, or lack of, is, I don’t know.

At least one positive is McNeil being benched.

Yay! Thanks. Michael.

Come on, Harrison, claim a place here!

I don’t usually go negative before a game but I can see the carnage now if these four lumbering giants of Premier League defending contrive to let in a goal from a corner this afternoon!!

Please say it ain’t gonna happen!!!!

Will this be yet another example of being held back by team selection or is it just a case of Moyes needing to cover for are inadequate full backs by playing only centre-backs across the back line???

Playing for a point here, are we?

Brighton have fast tricky wingers…

Not sure I’d play two centre backs against them. Especially one just returning from long lay off. Easing him back… ?

Iam having flashbacks from the Walter Smith days.

Mykolenko is either injured or being sold.

This could be a master stroke from Moyes. Talk about inviting pressure.

As much as I think Patterson is average he deserved to stay in the team, he has done nothing wrong to get dropped.

Moyes had an opportunity today to play 5 at the back with 2 wingbacks and chose to go ultra defensive. We all knew Jake was going to play right back today.

Let’s see how this game pans out.

No Aznou anywhere, is he injured? Is Patterson that bad ?

I was fancying us to get something out of the game, but I don’t like that line-up too much.

Theres too many coming back from injuries and playing out of position for my liking.

Mykolenko unavailable. Doesnt fancy Aznou

Not the greatest shock in the world

Moyes was one of the first in the league to really introduce the attacking fullbacks in Baines and Coleman so to see that starting defence today suggests to me he’s extremely pissed with his options or something else.

We never got told anything about Mykolenko being injured, maybe he’s ill who knows, maybe he’s been flogged but I doubt it.

Patterson clearly will never be fancied by any Everton manager.

now I’ve gotten over the shock, we still have a midfield of Gana Garner KDH Armstrong and Ndiaye, so you’d fancy us to provide some threat in this game. The big question is how will Jarrad do at left back. Must have been tempting to put Garner back there, but maybe he’s shown this week in training he can hack it. As much as O’ Brian at right back anyway. It is a bit weird though we have our first choice centre backs at full back and our second choice centre backs in pride of place.

Am also a little surprised he hasn’t gone with McNeil, it may be the case this is his last game, and possibly Iroegbunam.

Peter 26, please!

Defend this shit, don’t attack us

Yes, he should have put Garner left back, and not picked Keane. Had Rohl/Iregbuenam in the middle.

I wonder why he’s gone this way? Maybe Garner really didn’t want to go to full-back.

Personally I don’t think there is any real difference between Patterson and O’Brien defensively at right-back but it does seem retrograde for attacking intent.

I also think left-back in a back four is a role with different expectations than the left centre-back. I’m not sure we will find Branthwaite any more likely to overlap or cross regularly than Mykolenko, so that choice seems strange unless Mykolenko and Aznou are both unavailable.

I think calling all of the chosen back four ‘lumbering’ is too harsh but Moyes definitely seems to be trying to win the game by doughtily defending corners and set-pieces and hoping that overwhelming height and strength at the opposite end will gain sufficient reward.

Not really watched much of Brighton this season so I don’t know if they remain nifty and nimble or whether some of that attacking verve has become dulled by the passage of time.

All games seem in the balance this season. We can definitely win this. Come on, you immense Blues!

It’ll be long hoofs from Pickford to try and get their keeper to give us a corner then 4 big centre halves and Barry to hope the corner gets passed the front post but not the back unless Tarkowski has taken up position there.

Look on the bright side, we’ve got 2 right backs on the bench (one of the keepers must also have the mystery injury that is going around) and three if you think Rohl has played there but neither of our two left backs or any juniors.

Mr Moyes has certainly sprung one here.

Dale @31 — I wasn’t attacking anyone!

I don’t have the first clue about this formation, but I am always half-full, rather than half-empty in my views on our prospects, especially before the match has even started.

Like everyone else, I whinge and moan if/when it isn’t working out or we make stupid mistakes. COYB!

A really strange line-up with 4 centre-backs.

I feel for Patterson, he’s not the future but he’s been steady in the last couple of games and, in a 3, he is a decent wing back.

Jarrad Branthwaite at left-back is strange… but he’s quick, got a good left foot, and maybe with coming back from a long time out, there’s a bit less physicality at left-back?

But I always say, where there’s a negative, you can find a positive: No Mykolenko, finally… brilliant result! He is the worst left back in the Premier League.

Good midfield though and Harrison Armstrong will benefit hugely playing alongside Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. I still fancy a result here for us.

Oh dear, Kevin, your unbreakable faith in the Moyessiah is starting to waver, I fear.

Haven’t you written before, telling us with unchallengable perspicacity that “Moyes sees them every day of the week” — and therefore his selection cannot be questioned?

Welcome to the world the rest of us occupy…

I didn’t see that starting line up in any of my ‘what’s Moyes going to do’ thoughts!

Fingers crossed it somehow works and we win, we had a good run of wins with 4CB’s under Ancellotti so you never know. Will watch with interest, hope we aren’t all cursing a strange selection after the game (too early to whinge now, surely?).

Looking at that line up suggests that their wide men are going to have a field day.

Get ready for a backs to the wall, low possession approach from our boys.In other words like most of our away performances.

Good to see Branthwaite and KDH playing again.

This will be tough as Brighton are playing well.

Peter 36, alright. I think it is fair game when a lineup like this is produced to have a go. We all, well most, want the three points when the kickoff happens.

I just prefer to see the argument countered rather than commenting on the mood or tendencies of posters on the thread.

In we go we the 3,000 travelling blues.

This was always going ton be a tricky one, but we can bring the 3 points home.

Come on blue boys.

he always seems to play well in this fixture Frank, I’d have put him in his favoured position on the left, and put Ndiaye right. That way the team has natural width. as it is, we are lopsided.

I’m not averse to questioning his calls Michael, I just object to the overwhelming levels of cryarsing levelled at him, when we’ve had 6-9 players out, and are still in touching distance of the euro spots. Particularly after the last decade, and the state of the squad in the summer. As every week passes it seems the players we bought havent’ immediately tanked Tosun Walcott style., we picked up the best loan, the best player, an excellent forward, and two exciting youth players. Nobody now mentions that of course…

Rob @39,

I didn’t see that starting line-up in any of my ‘what’s Moyes going to do’ thoughts!

I see the much-maligned Anjishnu failed to post his usual pre-match piece that includes the predicted line-up. I wonder if this means something anything?

Maybe he had this one predicted and thought “Nah, no one is gonna believe four centre-backs!”

Dale@42 – I guess my big issue is not that people don’t like a particular formation or team selection, it is just that it pretty much always starts with a pop at the manager and his alleged negativity.

In respect to this particular selection, I don’t know what he has in mind, but it is different (which is one of the criticisms often made of him – never changes anything) and he is not playing a few players (for whatever reason) who are frequently criticised on this site for not being good enough, including McNeil, Patterson and Mykolenko.

Suck it and see!

George RR Martin sums up this thread in Game of Thrones better than I ever could so…

Alliser Thorne: Do you know what leadership means, Lord Snow? It means that the person in charge gets second-guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. (or keyboard)

We’ve been absolutely shite for the last few years, looking over our shoulder, watching the results of other teams as much as our own.

We’re 5 points off the Champions League in the last week of January. Not one of us thinks relegation is a possibility. That’s a massive step in the right direction.

We’re probably going to Europe next season regardless. Which one of you wouldn’t have bitten someone’s arm off for that last season?

Give some bloody credit where it’s due.

Yeah, not good, Jason. Moyes deserves criticism that was heaped at Dyche for moves like this.

Again, that is on the ad hominem side of a discussion or critique.

Jason @ 53, so we should all be happy clappers then, regardless of performance and results?

Getting spanked at home on numerous occasions is progress is it? We are doing a lot better than last season, agreed. But it doesn’t make everything in the garden rosy.

Dale, 54.

Dyche didn’t get us 5 points off the Champions League after half the season was done.

Annika, 55.

Yes, “doing a lot better than last season” is progress. In fact, it’s the very definition of progress.

You don’t have to be a happy clapper, nor does anyone have to be a moaning sod before the game has even kicked off.

Jason @ 58, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it’s supportive or not.

But that doesn’t mean people who express different views to you should be criticized. At the end of the day we all want our team to do well and win as often as possible.

But that line-up today isn’t exactly a confidence filler.

Jason, statistical fallacy.

The top of the league is weak this year. Moyes isn’t Ancelotti

Dale, 60, I didn’t indulge in statistical fallacy, just the reality that we’re in touching distance of the Champions League going into February.

Rather than the cock-eyed fantasy that we’re doing no better than the previous season when we came close to relegation and were staring down the barrel of a gun at this stage of the season.

First half for Everton, shots on targets = 0, shots off target =0, xG = 0, corners = 0, one-one-one attempts = 0.

At least we’ve been consistent.

What an awful first half from us. Brighton have created a couple of decent chances but we are playing as though nobody knows where anyone else is supposed to be.

Get Gana off as he doesn’t get forward in support enough and stop playing Armstrong in support of Barry and maybe put Alcaraz in that role

That is one off, one on. And maybe consider Ndiaye on the right but I’ll bet Armstrong is the one off and Dibling will come on on the right. Garner and Dewsbury-Hall need somebody else to help out in midfield.

Steve @62,

I know someone who will be delighted with that.

Steve (62),

We won here last season playing that puerile football — we had one shot on target throughout the game, the penalty taken by Ndiaye, maybe we can do the same today?

What a dreadful way to play football though, no wonder fans are continuing to be sickened by it.

What is it with Everton centre-backs playing back to Pickford???

It does my head in!!!

This football club doesn’t deserve nice things. Playing 4 fucking centre-backs…

If we’re so short, go out and buy some fucking full-backs!!!

Rohl does more than Gana… we must be the only team to ever start a back 4 with all four centre-backs.

Who the fuck even does that?

Get what you deserve.

Who would want to join this shit show?

Disallowed 2nd goal for Brighton…

Not sure what for?

Need a goal… might as well throw Beto up with Barry?

No, not Davey.

Made up with a point.

A khasi set up from the manager first half.

Should have been a goal or two up, but still far too negative, with 4 centre-backs.

This manager holds us back. Especially the more creative and younger players.

I’m pretty sure there will be loads of theories here, but we tied due to a moment of brilliance from a Brighton player and the foot of another; good result under the circumstances.

Tyler has to face his marker, either he does how to know that or not will determine if he is very good winger or not… The boy has to grow some balls!!

Terrible first half, good second half. We had a go and deserved the point.

What a difference when we decided to attack.

Simon,

A lot will accept the dire first half performance because we got a point.

It is dour, boring, “don’t take a risk” football and a lot of us accept it as we are not fighting relegation.

They don’t know they’re beat, this team. Despite the setbacks, they keep plugging away.

He’s built up a strong mentality with the squad. It would have been a terrific assist if Dewsbury-Hall had scored from Barry’s lovely little ball to lay it all on a plate. Shame, great save from the goalie. We surely would have won it if that had gone in.

Well done, chaps.

It might sound daft but the only reason we got a point was that we scored the same amount as they did. Mind you, it might have been a completely different result had Dewsbury-Hall put his sitter away, has he not been watching Barry finish?

Great start to the second half, our keeper wellies it out for a goal kick and their keeper kicks that out for a throw-in. And then I think it was Keane who looked to move with their scorer but then changed his mind and I didn’t see a lot wrong with their disallowed goal but good to see a Linesman not waiting to be told.

I hope we practice more at passing and moving through the week and a little less with the swords or whatever is causing all these mystery injuries.

It is clear from the last two games that we do have enough to beat these opponents… but not if the only thing we do during the first half is defend, for fuck’s sake

But that is fucking Moyes all over. So typical, so negative. Start with a point, and ‘winning’ it back with a late late goal that the fans will love will keep the Moyes lovers loving him.

Well, I fucken hate him. I can’t even watch or listen to him any more…

How the hell did VAR not find a way to disallow our goal? They tried hard though…;-)

Not a great game of football, but Moyes actually used all 5 of his allowed substitutions and it paid off.

Good strike by O’Brien and great follow-up by Beto. Our centre-forwards are actually doing all the scoring — time for the likes of Ndiaye, Dewsbury-Hall, Alcaraz, Gueye etc to step up and contribute.

Patterson had a good cameo, he caused Brighton a lot of problems although the equalising goal came from a Garner cross. Iroegbunam looked rusty and got lucky that his giveaways did not result in a goal.

Well done, Moyes and the boys for showing resilience. A point away is not to be sneezed at.

Sorry but Davey wants to give his head a wobble for that.

Playing 4 centre-backs? Ridiculous. Patterson earned the right. O’Brien earned the right to stay centre-back.

Stick with players playing well. Brighton are good but they were there for the taking.

I’ll be slashed and damned.

I walked away and missed it. Fuckin Moyes.

Michael #88,

A bit harsh in my opinion.

We deserved a draw with our 2nd half performance, even the pundits agreed.

Even when we raised our game a touch, I never really thought it wasn’t going to go in for us today,

I’m more than happy to take that point. Although I’m not sure I’d have been quite so easily pleased if I’d gone all the way down there to witness that.

Level with Man City on recent overall form, 6th best away record so far this season.

Moyes, that.

For Moyes’s safety-first plan, 1 point gained.

For some of us who want to go out to win the game, then it’s 2 points lost against a team with 1 win in 11 matches.

It’s a joy to read the posts on here — I don’t think.

We get an away point and are now in 8th place and you would think we got hammered.

Happy with the point as usual but that anti-football first half still rankles and will continue to do so. It does define the way this manager thinks and to see him walk on the field full of smiles and handshakes as though he had done something remarkable, when in reality that first half will earn us no neutral friends and disappoint loads of us Everton fans.

Keep serving that up, Moyes — happy with a point, no matter how we contrive to get it, except to prove to most of football that you are a less than average manager.

Strange that the players lots of fans don’t like or want have earned us the points in the last few games.

Kavanagh just couldn’t help himself — booking Moyes for celebrating.

Snide little prick.

It’s a squad game, Dave, so it was nice to see the manager use all the subs available.

We deserved a draw, probably even more for that second half performance, although I suppose we got lucky with that offside goal.

@Tony 97

As another poster highlighted, its a poor Premier League this season and, on that basis, with a less negative approach, we could be in with a chance of something special.

It’s there and it’s within touching distance and it’s going to bypass us because we’re too scared to reach out because we have a point before a ball is kicked. An opportunity like this might not repeat itself for another 10 years…

Behave yerself, Merle, don’t you understand it’s a successful season — we are not fighting relegation?

We could even qualify for The Best Of The Rest final.

John,

I rest my case.

Let’s know our place and not try.

We are too safe and absolutely boring to watch; winnable games are being sacrificed by poor team selection, and lack of performance management.

Please Fuck Off now, Moyes.

100% Merle, we should be going out to win every game. At the start of the season, our target should be try to win every competition we enter.

Set a low bar and acheving that is deemed successful because we haven’t been relegated. I’m hoping these new owners can change the whole pysche at the club.

Moyes achieved his remit last season and should have been thanked and then replaced so the new era could begin.
>So far, TFG haven’t displayed what I thought they would be.

Tony (102),

Yes, of course it is a squad game, and it’s also a 90-minute game… doesn’t the first half count?

As for using all the subs, I don’t think he used one until we went a goal down. We’ve all seen that before, it’s one of his traits, along with keeping that point we started with at all costs.

One of the subs got that valuable goal, and we might have had two — imagine the screams if Barry had missed the sitter he set up for Dewsbury-Hall — we’d be up to over 150 posts by now!

The arguments rage, distorted, full of half truths…

And then you begin to realise why those bastards across the park rub their hands, snigger with joy, and then sing a song about thirty fucking years.

I’d give Moyes another season, based solely on the fact we need to work a transition through. We need about 5 players to have any kind of squad.

And I’ve said it a million times, just go and buy some players, get the numbers up. Some will work out, but it also creates competition for places. Nobody should be guaranteed a start.

But what I would be doing if was running this place is working towards a transition now based on what we have, and what we need.

Moyes is Mr Safety First, always has been, and he’s the ultimate glass ceiling manager when he could actually be so much more. Fortune, as they say, favours the brave.

A minge bag of a manager.

Sick of watching this Turkish Delight.

A hide behind the couch man, our Davey.

Dave, spot on, barely a mention about the sitter Dewsbury-Hall missed, it was awful.

And I know certain Blues hate or won’t even give Patterson any credit whatsoever but we looked a better team when he came on.

Exactly what Merle says (103). And what I’ve been harping on about.

Roll the fucking dice now and we might be surprised cos the Premier League is so tight. Fucking Villa, who were below us not a couple of seasons ago, have done exactly that. And Forest challenged for Champions League places. And still would be if their owner wasn’t such a twat.

Wait until the summer and it’s rinse and repeat. Spend all summer speculating who we need, drawn out transfers, end up with half of what we wanted.

Meanwhile, everyone else also moves forward and we’re static. It’s been the same for 30 years now. We’re bored to fucking tears of it, Everton. Do something!

I think a ot of the negativity and criticism comes from the frustration of 30 years of shite which, for a club with our history, is a disgrace.

I am more concerned with the hierarchy than I am with Moyes. Where are the full-backs and goalscorers that have obviously been needed for years?

I know Moyes’s team selections can be quite questionable but let’s give the man a bit of support and belief. It was interesting that our fantastic away support was singing his name today before the equalizer went in.

But it was the timing of those subs that helped us get that very valuable point at the end, Dave!

Credit to Nathan Patterson — he’s been derided, with some posters constantly saying he’s very poor, but he came on to the pitch very, very late in the game but with the perfect attitude. Hopefully he stays fit and gets his reward in the summer, representing his country in the World Cup.

Who was missing today, besides Grealish and Mykolenko? A squad without depth but still people are happy with TFG.

Philip @111,

Good question! I like Ariola but he seems to be having a blip this season at Bournemouth… and after seeing what Brentford did to us at the HDS, Keith Andrews.

l would also take a punt on Xabi Alonso. Whoever it is needs to fundamentally change our football philosophy… l could not take another manager who plays one up front. Is it too much to ask for high tempo fast attacking football?

Just a short update on one of our out-on-loan players, as I travel home on the coach from a cracking day at Tamworth.

Goalkeeper Fraser Barnsley has just helped Marine to the last 8 of the FA Trophy with 2 saves in a penalty shootout.

Nick Page, spot on.

Thank fuck I’m 56 and seen the 80s, we really have been served up a dog shit sandwich for 30-plus years.

And queued up in the tens of thousands to eat it, Mick.

One particular shithouse and his right-hand man convinced us 7th place equalled success.

I was disappointed with that line-up but a point at Brighton is okay.

I think Patterson needs to be given a start at right-back. O’Brien is probably a better defender but Patterson is definitely a better footballing right-back.

The constant whingeing from some on here gets boring. It says more about the moaning poster than it does about Everton though.

Tony @ 117, I believe you are right with Patterson there mate, and a few others share that feeling, so why does Moyes constantly ignore him, and others, in favour of his boringly safety-first selections?

I bet he hates that Board game — Risk!

Frustration is the key word. New staduim, new owners, new, fresh ambition? New old manager.

TFG have been very underwhelming so far. I don’t want to start another cycle of projects with the promise of “This time next season it”ll be better”. Frustrated.

Tony @112, agreed about Patterson, the lad has always come in and given it his all, never let his head drop.

I’d be delighted if he went to the World Cup.

When was the last time Everton were 2-0 up at half time at fucking Chelsea?

Everton Football Club — not the fans — turn up at that shithole and are beaten before they get on the pitch, against a club (forget the idea team) who’d spent more seasons in the lower leagues than the top division.

That was until the Russian was “allowed” to throw money at it. We haven’t won there since November 1994. This is the rotten mentality that pervades Everton Football Club.

Nick@112. That is definitely a post that I could have written myself mate.

Can David Moyes keep enough good players happy and integrate them into a tight competitive squad?

If he can, he could as you say, be so much more, although I’m aware he needs those extra players. I often wonder if he’s got the personality to keep a much bigger squad of quality players happy.

For this to happen, then first we have got to spend some money.

Liam @124, where did you hear that?

Hope you are right!

Just watching West Ham taking apart Chelsea. Hammers players so quick and Chelsea look lost.

Just picking up points made about Braiden Graham this morning being lightweight and he’d get kicked off the park in the Premier League…

Summerville of West Ham is 5′-8″, a 9st 9lb when he’s wet, and Chelsea can’t sniff him. Scored another great goal. Get the Braiden in the squad.

Nick (112),

Moyes did not turn up to just not lose. Mykolenko was injured so he selected Branthwaite. He preferred O’Brien at right back, and we’ve won plenty with him playing there.

He’s safety first and cagey, yeah, and has one of the best away records in the Premier League this year. Get over it.

I too thought Patterson’s cameo showed he needs to play!!
The lad’s confidence must be shot, he’s our only fit right-back and doesn’t start.

He offers way more with the ball the O’Brien, he’s not made any massive mistakes, (O’Brien at fault today, losing his man for the goal.) If that was Patterson, he’d be getting slaughtered.

Some people won’t have Moyes no matter what, so he’s not going to win them over anyway, whatever selections or subs he makes, even if forced to make some strange ones.

How many said Grealish won’t be missed???

Moyes is doing a good job.

Think back 12 months, 24 months, 36 months… we are annual survivors.

This is progress, steady ship, new ground. Leave Moyes alone. When it’s the right time, then you can all have the young, foreign, dynamic manager certain posters crave.

Tarkowski was deffo offside and interfering with the goalie’s sight. If that was given against us, I would be well pissed off…. but I’ll take the point!!!

We are still cooking. I wish Gana’s shot would have went in against Leeds and Dewsbury-Hall scored the sitter today. Fine margins.

Jimmy, sorry mate but no team ever should be playing 4 centre-backs across the back.

If you’re happy with that, then fine. I’m not. This is Everton Football Club.

Another good point away from home against difficult opponents.

We move on.

Can this Harry Wilson play right-back, left-back, or centre-forward? Surely he can’t be another midfielder.

This did make me smile — Jason Hewly @53: ‘We’re probably going to Europe next season regardless’. WAG outing shopping in Milan?

Frank #130,

If West Ham go down (and as I write this, they have already blown the lead at Chelsea), Summerville would be my first choice of a player to pursue from the relegated clubs. He is electric.

I like Moyes. I think he’s “steadied the ship”. I also wouldn’t drop him now.

But if you gave him 40 points and a fully fit squad at the start of the season and no injuries, he’d finish 10th. That’s Moyes.

Prove me wrong…

Good luck with attracting Xabi Alonso to come to Everton, Merle.

That would be funny as fuck, to be fair.

It’s a good point way from home, but I think what everyone is saying is that, if we’d have shown a bit more attacking intent in the first half, we’d have probably got 3. I mean Brighton have won 1 in11 and we’ve been good away from home.

Just show some courage, for fuck’s sake, and try and win the game instead of waiting for something to happen. We had to go a goal behind before we showed any intent, I think that’s what pisses fans off.

Summerville has done well at West Ham.

It’s really surprised me that he settled in London as I always thought he was a Smalltown Boy.

Tony (@117), You forgot to put LOL after your first line.

Timings of those subs — two bleedin’ minutes to go? Desperation time did you mean — mind you I wanted Patterson on from the start.

Peter (@119), I was thinking about you when I saw the Marine score come up on the TV — did our goalie save a couple of penalties in the last round for Marine?

I wouldn’t mind betting, Peter, that you get a lot more enjoyment watching Marine this season than watching Everton — pure honest endeavour from one team and some very poor performances from the millionaire professionals.

Liam (146), Good one!

Probably passed over younger heads though.

It was nil nil at half time. We are away from home. Not sure if people want us to turn into Brazil with the fantastic players we have.

I agree, Patterson deserved to keep the shirt but O’Brien didn’t let us down. Mitoma was kept quiet for most of the game.

Moyes was slow with the subs as usual. Putting Paterson on was due to Branthwaite being goosed and not some master stroke.

No idea what’s wrong with Mykolenko but, let’s face it, he wasn’t missed. Aznou not even on the bench, so left-back options very limited.

Some great posts on here tonight. I particularly like the one “We only got the draw as we scored the same amount of goals”…

The “Alonso next manager” shout was also great.

Someone claiming Tarkowski was offside. You would swear people are happier grumbling.

A boring game but a last-minute goal is a thing of beauty, as close to a win as it comes.

Tough to pick a MotM, Garner for his all-around effort.

Philip @144,

Yes, slightly unrealistic and slightly tongue-in-cheek but Keith Andrews l definitely would take a punt on.

Who would you go for? Or would you rather be out of both cups in January and bored to sobs watching archaic tactics but safe again every season?

Go back to my post @98, for laughter, Dave!

I forgot to reply to Peter M, who sounds like he has had a brilliant day away from the razzmatazz of the Premier League….

Singing “We Shall Not Be Moved”, Peter?

Dave – -10 minutes of play left.

Keith Andews, why the fuck are we punting? We need stability and a rebuild, not a double fucking 6.

Ian (154),

There were 2 minutes of normal time when he came on = desperation time. Two of the other subs, Tim Iroegbunam and Tyler Dibling, added nothing to the performance.

Charly Alcaraz made some difference in the few minutes he was given. He will most probably play on the wing next week… if he’s here!

First half was certainly a hard watch, and agreed that Patterson deserved the start. The problem was that Branthwaite had to move out to the left if Mykolenko was injured, which means Keane should’ve remained on the bench after his suspension.

Also, I would’ve liked to have seen Dibling start on the right with Armstrong, as good as he is, playing in the middle and Gana remaining on the bench. I know Dibling hasn’t shown much, but we needed true wingers on the pitch.

Certainly I would’ve liked to have seen the subs 10 minutes earlier and Rohl instead of Iroebugnam.

I’m souring a bit on Moyes, but still think he should get another season for stability’s sake. We’ve seen what happens when you chop and change the manager too quickly.

Sign good players in the summer, keep the manager, see what happens next year. It’s not always pretty right now, but I’ll maintain it’s still far better than the past few seasons, which is good enough for me.

Jeepers…

l can’t quite fathom why we have so many fans who enjoy being spoonfed joyless shite and never winning a trophy for over a generation — and we’re to be grateful for it, to boot!

Brainwashed by the previous chairman and his right-hand man, Merle.

7th is the new 1st.

There’s nothing more to add on Moyes. It was all said in the last years of his first spell.

That’s what makes it all so depressing.

A week ago, we beat the prospective champions on their own pitch. We’ve just scored an injury time equaliser against our rivals for a Euro spot, again away, and you reckon, Merle, we should now sack Moyes and put in Keith Andrews cos you’re sick of watching joyless shite?

And this is whilst we’ve gone in a year from relegation contenders to having the best away record in the league?

I’m not sure people are loving watching the first half, but when you’ve just lost your best player, and have two just back from Afcon, and another two just returning from long term injury, there is a thing called ‘making allowances and seeing the bigger picture.

Like the fact we are now starting to recruit well, but that it can’t all be done at once. But that, after another Summer window, we may well have the makings of a decent squad, if we get in the full-backs we need.

I don’t know who I’d want to replace Moyes, Merle, because I’m not clamouring for him to go. Quite simple, really.

I can have my concerns and frustrations about his selection but I can also be happy with a 97th-minute equaliser because of his changes and be 9th in the table.

How high in the table do you expect us to be at this stage of the season?

Merle,

I asked you in the Live Forum to name me a manager who could replace Moyes. You never replied, so I’m asking you again: name me a manager that realistically we could attract who’d do as good a job as Moyes has done in 12 months?

I’ve got news for you: there isn’t one. Yes, the football has been dire at times but we’ve ground results out. I will say this, though, on a different note: Patterson did not deserve to be dropped today and if Moyes thinks O’Brien is a better right-back, then he’s mistaken.

If Branthwaite plays in his normal position today we win that game because he would have anticipated the cross.

Philip @163,

Well, let’s see… we spunked points against Wolves at home due to selection, stubborness and tactics; we spunked points at home against Leeds due to selection, stubborness and tactics; and we spunked points today against a struggling Brighton side today due to selection, stubborness and tactics…

6 points + 34 = 40 — that would put us 5th in theory

We’ll ignore the changing of the side after the terrific Forest away win for the home game against Brentford to shoehorn Keane back in the side and the dropping of Rohl who’d had his best game (l like Keane btw).

To sum up, we have a decent set of players (forwards apart) who should be at least where they are in the table but they’re being held back. Again, it’s about having the gumption to reach out and grab what’s on offer — and we’re not.

So again please enjoy the joyless shite that dithering dour Dave forces us to choke on.

Various posters,

Who would do a better job with this current squad? Glasner? Irola? Potter? All this or recent years flavour of the month?

We all want to be playing attractive winning football but a lot of us realise our limitations and the fact that it will take time. I hated watching us in the 1st half today but I see improvement in the overall wider picture.

Andy @166,

Sorry, Andy, l came off the Live Forum soon after the whistle but l’ve already said on this thread that l like the football Keith Andrew’s Brentford play.

But l will tell you now Moyes outstayed his welcome by 5 years prior to him shitting all over us to gush all over Sir Alex Ferguson and l never wanted him back.

Football has moved on and l don’t like him or his football teams.

Thanks for that, Merle. You’re right about the games you mention but guess what? Moyes’s selections can fuck everyone off but, on the last six games form, we’re level with Man City.

What other Premier League team do you think we should be playing in the style of right now, (a year after flirting with relegation) and how high should we be in the table now for you to be happy?

Reading this thread, it would appear expectation has been successfully managed again.

The less they pay to watch the shite Moyes serves up every week, the more they apologise for it.

Kevin,

You keep parroting that we have the best away record in the Premier League.

We don’t.

Can l just add that Newcastle, Villa and Forest flirted with relegation at the same time as us but moved on (Forest currently the exception but they have had other things going viz the chairman).

It’s not outrageous to suggest we can’t make a splash at the right end of the table for once!

“Like the fact that we’re now starting to recruit well.”

Have I missed something this month? Who? What? Where? When?

Merle -Newcastle didn’t crash the top six the first season after becoming the richest club in the world, Forest had one good season and are now struggling, but credit to Villa for landing an excellent manager who took them to the next level.

Moyes still went there and beat them the other week, though. And we’re a point behind Newcastle.

It’s incredible to think we would have been in a very similar position to Liverpool, and above Newcastle, if we had got those extra points Merle, because I’ve just watched the last twenty minutes of the first half at Anfield, and both of those teams are playing the type of energetic football, that we can currently only dream of watching.

The more money I pay Darren, the less I want to watch us. I’m aware that football is a results business, but I’d love to see a little bit of innovation, a lot more drive, and just a little bit of speed of thought, to give me a feeling that makes me really want to go the game.

You and 52000 others Tony.

Tony@177 I always enjoy your posts but I think you(and me) are pining

for the sort of football which money has killed forever. Once in a while

there’s game that reminds you what the game should be. In most

games now you can tell six passes away that the ball will be passed

back to the goalkeeper.

Messrs Abrahams, Father and Son.

I have to be careful, there are some who dislike my going off on a tangent, away from Everton. But I felt the fact that an Everton player made such a huge contribution with saves for Marine (as in previous rounds, Dave) justified my post.

I went on the coach with my son, and his sons aged 9 and 11, so all day I was thinking about being on coaches to FA Cup ties at a similar age following the Blues in the second half of the 1960s, with all the joy and torment that went with those journeys. “We shall not be moved” was never far away from my thoughts, Tony.

At the end of the game, before the penalties, a boy in front of me became very agitated as he found out Beto had scored, of course I enjoyed the moment too.

What I did witness at the game at Tamworth was a magnificent effort from Marine’s players. They have been ravaged by injuries, players being pulled back from loans (including the excellent Idon Samuels-Smith from Everton), part-timers against full-timers, the wounded and the exhausted seeing out the draw.

I’m not sure millionaires would have done it.

Tony is that the same Newcastle and Liverpool who’ve collectively pumped hundreds of millions more than we have over multiple seasons to where they are ?

Sorry we can’t go from battling it out with Ipswich to playing like PSG within one season. Who should we have got in instead of Moyes to be competing to your desired level Tony?

haha, you’d rather extrapolate over six months than a year Tony?

ok

The thing with Moyes is this is all he csn do. There will be no change, no different style, no tactical masterstrokes. It’ll just be the same old blues, win one, lose one, draw a couple – all with the same safety first, defensive shape obsessed masterplan.

I would be surprised if most fans weren’t pragmatic enough to realise that it could go either way if we replaced him. But for me its so hard not to be be fatigued by Moyes and his approach. It might not be as bad as Dycheball, but its still feckin boring.

Yes Kevin, why not. Its about this season or shall we take teams records back 2,3,4 seasons to manipulate stats? Like I said it’s about the now.

Enlighten me with this improved, good recruitent we’re doing, who are these players and when did we sign them?

Ok, that Keith Andrews shout has given me the biggest chuckle/grimace since the Graham Potter shout, a name pushed by more than a few on here. But Keith Andrews? A set piece coach with half a season in management? That’s the guy to take us forward? Yeah, good one.

It doesn’t matter quoting facts to the anti-Moyes brigade. If we qualify for Europe it won’t matter either. They’ll still be here, frothing at the mouth, mumbling something about happy clappers, first to post when Moyes doesn’t pick their preferred eleven. Led on (with pitchforks at the ready) by the ever redoubtable Michael Kenrick.

ToffeeWeb that.

well that’s got to be a first Tony, wanting to judge someone’s output over a shorter period.

players?

Jack Grealish. best loan we’ve ever had?

KDH signing of the summer window?

Rohl. finding his feet

Barry. a one in two goal return if you count his unfairly disallowed goals

Aznou. we can all see the potential.

Dibling. ditto

plus being responsible for a major upturn in form in Garner, Keane O’Brien

Remind me are we 8th or 20th, because reading most of the depressing posts you would swear we were 20th.

The top clubs don’t spend fortunes signing the very best players they can find for nothing.

If you expect us to play like Arsenal you need Arsenal players.

When we can field a team of top class players to match the top few teams, then you can expect us to play good open football.

At the start of the reason the squad was in a right old mess, theres some very short memories on here.

I don’t know Philip, but that one season made me shake my head though mate.

I’ve witnessed loads of seasons of Moyes teams before, and that’s why Peter Mills, earlier post resonated with me.

I knew “we shall not be moved” wouldn’t have been far from Peter’s thoughts because he’s a genuine Evertonian, who was brought up on cup football.

What’s cup football, asked David? Fuck that, I’m here to bring stability, not entertain the people, and anyone who knows anything about football, shouldn’t expect me to play exciting football anyway, because I’ve never had the money, thank god.

I don’t expect miracles, but having a desired level of just expecting to watch players who really want to play, isn’t too much to ask Philip?

Barry 1 in 2 if you count his disallowed goals? Is that a serious statement, you’re funny Kev..

As for Aznou, Rohl and Dibling your man Moyesy doesn’t see the potential does he? how often do they get picked?

Thanks for the reply Merle and your totally right about the game moving on, it’s all about opinions and you’re right in saying the football isn’t great.

I’d agree in as much we need a young vibrant coach who’s going to get us on the front foot from the first whistle, the trouble is who would our board go for.

Brighton don’t seem to have too much trouble or Brentford or Bournemouth but id say at this time we are better than the 3 of them.

Moyes has done a great job in just under a year and look at West ham without him.

Is he the future long term most definitely not but let’s not get too down on him because in the short term hes done a remarkable job.

Tony 189 “ Enlighten me with this improved, good recruitent we’re doing”

Level with City on last six form, 8th in the table. Where the fuck do you expect us to be?

that’s why it’s called potential Tony, it’s not ready now?

the referee in each of his disallowed goals said it was a goal, so yes for my purposes I am saying we have signed a player averaging a goal every two games. I think you can make that case. Everyone hates VAR. how many of Lineker’s goals would have been disallowed back in the day? or Rooney’s.

Kevin, you’re absolutely hilarious mate!

We can all see the potential in Aznou, fuckin brilliant that one.

Ditto Dibling? The kid looks like he’s waiting for the jury to return.

Grealish was a better loan player than Lukaku. Seriously?

KDH, is the signing of the summer? I know he cost a lot more money but the kid, who scored two for Liverpool tonight, has looked the best player in the league, when I’ve watched him.

Barry’s disallowed goals? I shouldn’t laugh at goals that have been taken away from our centre forward, but it hasn’t stopped me smiling though.🙈

I’ve had a hard week Kevin, so thanks for that very positive list. Laughter is definitely the best medicine 👍

I’m starting to see now Tony why you’re gloomy.

Yes, I think Aznou is going to be a good player. he’s had an excellent pedigree, showed good signs against Sunderland in the cup. What, are you convinced he’s a dud just cos he’s not got past Myko?

and yes, Grealish is a much better player than Rom, the flat track bully. Who’d score a boatload against Bournemouth and then disappear for a month.

Before his injury yes I think KDH was looking a better signing pound for pound than any Liverpool player.

Why is it so funny to say Barry is a one in two striker if the referee on the day was happy with the goal? it obviously won’t count towards his official total, but is evidence of his quality. It shows that according to the rules of five years ago or whenever he’d have been given the goal. it shows what he’s capable of, and what we have on our hands.

You honestly don’t know why I’m gloomy Kevin, but if you carry on with those observations, it’s possible you could end up in a psychiatric ward, alongside my mate, who has just given me a very hard week mate.

It’s all subjective, each to their own, but like I said the other week, reading some of your latest stuff, gives me a real feeling of sensationalism Kevin.

Liverpool have won one game in six, and have two less points than Everton, in the form league.

If City win tomorrow, they will have twelve points from their last six games, which will be three more than Everton.

Nobody is setting the world alight, that very welcome last minute equaliser today, probably moved Everton up about three places, and if we had taken maximum points from are last two home games against teams in the bottom six, we probably would have been sitting comfortably in sixth place.

Three close goal chances, 97th minute goal by Beto, away fans going mad, 8th in the table,”dour” Davie Moyes getting a yellow for being happy about it.

ToffeeWeb miserablists? Nah. Can’t bring themselves to celebrate a decent result.

Barry scored 5 in 26 games.

Hasnt improved enough to be a 1 in 5 man yet. Moyes more to blame for those shocking figures than the player,

Delighted with a point, especially after that shit show of a first half and yet another masterclass team selection from the genius that is Moyes.

Having read through all the posts so far, I am now under the impression we have the first manager in the land. Who has worked miracles with the players he has available and the canny signings made last summer.

Totally ignoring some of the dire football currently being served up by said genius. Numerous beatings at home by the powerhouses that are Spurs, Newcastle and Brentford. Not to mention the stunning efforts made to secure magnificent draws with Wolves and Leeds.

This, apparently, is excusable tho, due to the loss of our star player through injury and 2 further players being absent at AFCON. Not to mention the ridiculously small squad our genius is forced to deal with.

Not many managers would use 4 CB’s across there entire backline it has to be said. But we should all be extremely grateful as we currently sit 9th in the table and are comfortably avoiding another relegation dogfight.

This, of course, excuses the totally shite, dull, football being regularly served up by our genius.

But who could replace Moyes and do a better job? Apparently no one according to our vociferous Moyes supporters.

So, once our genius has improved the squad next summer, we can expect a further improvement and a big push for a European spot, according to some. Allowing us to bore the pants off of supporters across Europe with our stunning defensive performances.

If people want to praise Moyes regardless of result, or performance, good on you. Just as it’s reasonable for some people to expect at least a modicum of attacking intent and be critical of piss poor performances. Even if those performances only last for 45 minutes.

But according to some, we should only ever be gushing in our praise of the Moyesiah

I wonder what ToffeeWeb would have been like after the dour goalless draw with Coventry all those years ago.

‘get him out! put Harvey in! this is utter shit!’

I remember Howard getting interviewed after we won the title on the pitch, he said, ‘this hasn’t happened overnight you know. it took four years to build this’.

And most of those four years were filled with frustrating nearly games and hard watches. But we knew back then that you don’t just judge someone after six months or a year, you give them time to build something

Miserablists? Taken in isolation, that is a phrase that makes me feel quite miserable Philip, but then I start to remember that I have read a few of your recent posts, and it does appear that you like to rub people up the wrong way mate!

I celebrated the equaliser, it’s funny I have a twelve year old daughter, who starts doing handstands because she thinks that her 15 second handstands actually bring Everton, some luck, and If I’m being honest, I often get more enjoyment watching her determination to walk on her hands for Everton, because she believes it brings us a goal.

I’ll happily take the point, but I do worry about being called miserable, even though a lot of Everton’s latest performances have bored the life out of me.

Darren “hasn’t improved enough to be a 1 in 5 man yet”.

Apart from the fact that he’s just scored 4 in 5 games. Right after a very lean period. Pretty much the definition of an “improved” performance. Try harder.

“Hasnt improved ENOUGH to be better than 1 in 5 striker”

Not my opinion. An irrefutable fact

Official records eh ? they have this terrible habit of ramming apologism right back down the throats of those who spout it

I’m not sure I rub people up the wrong way in the same way as, say, comparing other posters you disagree with to your friends who have been committed to a psychiatric ward, Tony. Bit crass, that.

But, guess what? I’m a happy Evertonian tonight – just like the 3000 away fans who were going mad celebrating with Beto earlier.

Clearly my advice about anger management isn’t getting through to you Darren. Recent form is important in football. 4 goals in 5 games suggests a player in form. Which renders your stats meaningless. I’m sorry you don’t understand that.

I prefer to support Everton in a way that encourages their players to better themselves. Maybe one day you’ll find enlightenment. That or fuck off, I don’t really care tbh.

Philip

Darren’s upset his boy DCL fluffed his lines with his usual dreadful finishing against us last week when he was all excited to tell us how he was the best thing since sliced bread.

Annika 205,

The problem Everton have, is we are a bog standard team with bogstandard players. Apart from Pickford, how many of our players would get a game in the Top 4 or 5 clubs.

Some would say Branthwaite, but he has been a sick note in the last two seasons.

I think Pickford is a very good keeper, but no other club, that we know of, has ever been interested.

You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Everton need a better class of player, to compete, at the top table.

Philip,Devlin @ 203;

…”ToffeeWeb miserablists? Nah. Can’t bring themselves to celebrate a decent result.”

Sometimes it ain’t what you do – it’s the way you do it.

This is The Moyes Paradox writ large – the whole difference between the Moyesistas and the Moyes out Brigade.

You get 1 Pt. for a draw, 3 Pts. for a win…and then there’s GD – which can be worth a point.

But you don’t get any points for ‘Artistic Impression’ or entertainment* – for which I’m sure Moyes is eternally grateful.

* Back in the day, for both the fans AND the players, there used to be rewards for Artistic Impression / Entertainment…They called it ‘Crowd Bonus.’

The more ‘entertaining’ the team was, the more people would turn up to be ‘entertained’ and the more money the players would get…and the happier the fans would be.

Cause and effect – ‘better’ football / more happier fans

But with sell out crowds, waiting lists, and all the players overdosed on millions, no one seems to give a fuck any more.

Not even in the Squad? – who cares, the money still goes in the bank.

But with sell out crowds, waiting lists, with all the players…and the Managers…overdosing on millions, whats a few extra quid for entertaining the crowd?

…’who cares about how the game looks to the great unwashed, the ‘sans culottes’ on the sidelines…the 12th man my arse, they’re all ungrateful twats anyway, whinging about ‘Poor football’ – wtf do they know.?

I know a crap 1st half when I see one…just like the one on Monday…and others!

I know Jammy last minute escape when I see one too.

Struggling Brighton Merle #167, they were 2 points behind us and 2 places behind us in 12th going into the game, and 12 points clear of the bottom three.

If that’s struggling then what were we doing under Dyche? Drowning and about to go under for the third time?

Phillip #163, “How high in the table do you expect us to be at this stage of the season?“

Well we couda, wouda, shoulda, been higher, or lower considering results that have gone for / against us.

Philip @ 233, what it like being so perfect and so right all the time?

Just wondering because you don’t debate, you criticize anyone’s opinion you don’t agree with. Followed, generally, by a little abuse

“Dour Dithering Davie’s Defensive Dross Deserves Defeat” would have been a fair headline at half time.

The second half was a better but from a very low baseline, and it made me wonder what holds Moyes back? This is his last big job and I have always thought the best managers gamble when there is a game to be won.

Playing 4 centre backs in a low block and parking 2 defensive midfielders in front against a team below us in the league is utterly negative. Particularly, since Brighton have not won a home game sinve November.

When Moyes changed tactics yesterday, as in the Leeds game, we looked a team who came match for most teams. It’s your last big gig Moysey, take chances and be more progressive.

By the way, how crap must Dibling and McNeil be in training that the manager selected young Harrison to play on the right>

DT #217…

“Sometimes it ain’t what you do – it’s the way you do it.”

Yup.

And sometimes all that matters is getting it done.

I agree with John #216. At this point, this team is as average as it gets. Talent, pace, depth… adequate at best. Good enough to stay well clear of relegation danger for the first time in five seasons. Not nearly good enough to play entertaining, stylish-looking football.

I will be thrilled to see us play that kind of football again after all these years of grinding. But it won’t be this season. Or next, in my opinion. There is still a lot of rebuilding still to be completed. And a lot more grinding ahead of us.

Finally, it is always funny to read the usual Comical Allis on here trying to justify the really awful football served up.

Or the defenders of the world class analytics and industry-leading of the dividend divers TFG. It doesn’t matter that we are playing centre backs at full back, look at how many Toyotas they have sold in the States.

That 97th minute equalisers was brilliant, but took away the opportunity of reading why everything was just awesome and we must not deviate from the genius “long-term plan”.

Sure we will hear more about it next week.

Steve, we have a GD of -1. That’s about as average as you can get. Do you think we have better players than that?

And I would remind you that it’s not the Toyota guys’ responsibility to find good players, just to provide the funds for them. Finding and signing ’em is up to Moyes/Kinnear/Smith et al. And where they play on the pitch is entirely up to Moyes.

Liam 146 – ‘Smalltown Boy’ was on everywhere on the soundtrack for the Watford final mate. It was released the same month and in the car there and going home it was on the radio all the time, and in the alehouses around Covent Garden and Cambridge Circus. I love the song for its own merits but the memories it brings.

Top post Dave A – 148. Brilliant news Pete – 119. Made up for you and the Mariners. Has. the QF draw been made mate?

Kevin Molloy 199 – and yes, Grealish is a much better player than Rom, the flat track bully.

Enough is enough. Reality has to sink in at some point surely.

Lukaku’s impact on us was 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 times – take your pick – higher than Grealish. I do like Jack but Kevin’s Holy Moyes of Lourdes yawn now colours his view of our players. Given our needs in August, I would have taken Romelu on loan ahead of Jack in a heartbeat.

Kevin Molloy 207 – But we knew back then that you don’t just judge someone after six months or a year, you give them time to build something

Don’t rewrite history Mr. Molloy to suit your Teresa Moyes of Lourdes agenda. I was at that match. Everyone wanted Moyes sacked. The Winslow post-match was seething. It was awkward. We loved HK but he was doing shite.

‘But we knew back then’, look at the attendance FFS.

Were you there Kevin? Did you seek opinions? Your post is a travesty of reality. And then the league cup. No one expected it lad, though we hoped. And then Stoke A. Were you there Kevin? If not, don’t comment on a period and pretend to speak for us.

Rob Dolby(#150); If you are going to quote somebody else then use the whole quote. You must have a brain so read it again in context or did AI type this for you and has anyone explained to you that we weren’t the team in blue and white yesterday? Great!

I get tired of those celebrating that we are not in a relegation fight and see it as the mediocrity that has haunted our club for so long, Kenwright used to budget for an 11th place finish and guess who almost always got that for him although it has to be said that Moyes, this time around, has done better than most of his predecessors albeit only one was any good and he got out just over halfway through before moving on to one of the world’s great clubs and then arguably one of if not the best national team of all time.

As for who the next manager will be, nearly every club in the Premier League has changed managers in the last two or three years and who named Carrick at United or the bloke at Villa, they are out there.

As for the “Tarkowski offside”, please let us know what differences you saw (you did watch?) between his position and the one that saw the blue and white teams disallowed goal.

It’s a money game now. A few years ago a £15 million player would have been an average player, now a £30 million player is an average type of player. This is the price range we are shopping in. Sometimes you get lucky and get a class player for less but generally you do not. Top players now are £60 million and upwards and that’s the problem, only a few clubs can afford to pay that kind of money.

Anyway that’s just an aside- Moyes is a negative manager doing well with limited resources but playing ugly football.

As an Evertonian that grew up watching Harry Catterick’s teams today’s Everton pale in comparison.