Everton looking to appoint Nick Cox as new technical director

Yes, out with the old, in with the new and a re-structuring.

The owners are firmly putting their own stamp on the club.

The paragraph that caught my eye, was referring to Kinnear, wanting a broader, flatter structure, with experts in recruitment and player negotiations, which takes it away from Moyes’ sole responsibility.

That’s not a dig at the Manager. He can tell them what he wants and focus on the first team.

Colin (5), How about Mason Greenwood, Scott McTominay and Rashford for starters who have done well for United and I think they will gather about£150,000 for them when they all eventually leave.

I think the crucial appointments for the Academy will be the new coaches, they are certainly needed and have done for a good few years.

The youth system has 2 functions at big clubs:

– to provide first team players
– to provide additional revenue through player sales to buy first-team players

Even when the academy players are excellent they are being traded because there is a big accounting win.

There is a lot of trading going on age 14 to 18 – and then bigger money deals age 18 to 22. Man Utd haven’t done this as successfully in recent years as City and the RS possibly – but still generated money from the likes of Kambwala, Hannibal, Pellestri, Carreras, Pereira etc and those mentioned by others.

Dave, you could add the likes of Wan-Bissaka and Garnacho to the list who will make the club decent money. Plus Elanga, Angel Gomes, Dean Henderson, Andreas Pereira and Alvaro Carerras who have all looked decent players.

Think they’ve been in the top 2 or 3 in the U18 Premier League for the last 4 years or so which suggests their academy is churning out or finding decent players consistently though obviously they have far more resources than most. Not sure of budgets but maybe they might feel they should have been matching Chelsea or Man City, which I’m not sure they’ve achieved.

Rashford needed to find his way in football again, Dave @6. I don’t think he set the world alight on loan at Villa. As throughout his career, a bit hit and miss at times, but on his day, a very good player if he can settle in the right team.

Villa has already paid a lot for him. If reports are to be believed, paying 75% of his significant wages. The deal also had an option to buy for £40M. I’m not sure if they took that up. I haven’t seen anything.

Ryan, I’m not sure what you’re getting at there. Other decent players or being sarcastic? Maybe explain, so I can understand.

James Garner, once fit, had a very good half a season alongside Gana.

Henderson is England’s number 2 and won the FA Cup with Crystal Palace, although it’s debatable that he should have still been on the pitch.

Danny (10),

Yes, he has had a tough 2 years with Man Utd and England but I think he has had a good few years with Man Utd, mostly as a striker.

Maybe his form has dipped with him being used more as a winger and I think he will have a few options to move this summer although the huge wages he is on could be a handicap to that move.

Sam, didn’t they pay £50M to Palace for Wan-Bissaka?

Danny,

I’m adding the player brought through the Man Utd academy because Colin was struggling to remember other players coming through their academy.

Okay Ryan, that’s fine.

I just wasn’t sure what you meant. My bad.

All decent players that have come through their academy, Danny.

They have been superior over the years, Ryan. And if we go back in history, before our time, the Busby Babes. I don’t think a club in English football has done that twice, but happy to be corrected.

Maybe not as good now as Sir Alex’s early days, but still produce. Arsne Wenger wasn’t too shabby at spotting young talent and West Ham back in the day were pretty good too.

Let’s hope this restructuring can help us tap in to local and foreign talent. I’m not a believer of taking kids into academies too early, but we can at least identify them.

You will rarely, if ever get a Rooney, who by all accounts (urban myth), was ready for the man’s game at 10 years old!!

Something like 40 years ago, Manchester United had an academy graduate in their matchday squad

For me, there’s never been a greater England player than Wayne Rooney. You don’t get players like him often.

I love the interview Kevin Campbell gave about first meeting a young 14-year-old Wayne Rooney

I don’t believe the changes taking place at Everton, both on and off the field, will bring the success the owners are looking for.

In fact… we could be in for a name change to the club:
Manchester Old Boys.

Frank #19.

That’s a very negative viewpoint. What we need around the club is some enthusiasm and optimism.

Kevin – what is Moyes acknowledged expertise in recruitment?

He has some strengths certainly: largely in buying good but not great players in what would now be the £20M to £40M range.

But how does his expertise compare with the professionalised set-up at Brighton, for example, where they have already spent about £60M this summer on 4 under-21 players from Korea, Greece, the Championship and Italy?

I don’t want to go into some big list, Robert, but how much money have we lost by poor purchase of players in the last decade? Is it around £500M?

And how many players did Moyes increase in value between 5 and t10 times? I’d say it’s around a dozen players. I think his track record in recruitment is utterly beyond question.

The amount of money we’ve lost over the past 8 years or whatever is probably one reason why Kinnear is changing the way we do recruitment.

It’s been reported by Paddy Borland that Moyes will get the final say on any transfers.

Fair enough, Kevin. Yes – I confidently agree that Moyes would have made a much better job of the disastrous 2016 to 2021 period. Mind you, kids doing GCSE economics with a passing interest in football would have spotted the flaws back then. We were utter idiots.

And Moyes does still have his limits.

I’d be very surprised if he’s managed to stay on top of what is now a global market (and the highly professionalised nature of operating in that market). And when he has a big budget, he just seems to spend it on the same quality of player he can typically find with a smaller budget.

I think these are things which mean he is not beyond question. And will definitely benefit from experienced professional support (in the same way Klopp did at the RS, when we was persuaded to go with advice from the then newly hired data analysts).

I think that is what Ryan is suggesting – that we’re building a better team around recruitment (or at least trying to) to make the most of the budget we do have going forward – which will also extend to areas of recruitment Moyes probably shouldn’t have any say in (i.e. 14 to 16 year olds who are unlikely to debut while he is manager – and any development players initially earmaked for loans).

Danny #16,

I met Rooney when he was about 10 or 11 years old.

He was at my niece’s birthday party who was a good friend and still is with Wayne’s future wife. I suppose the word for him then was ‘brash’ and he didn’t mind telling you how good he was.

Glad to see the fixtures are out and I can start planning my next visit back… looks like September when they have 2 home games.

@26 Robert. Based on what?

He achieved nothing during that time.

He actually got Sunderland relegated in that period after buying Darron Gibson, Steven Pienaar and Bryan Oviedo from us as well as Victor Anichebe.

On that basis if he thought they were all good enough for Sunderland. He’d have kept them at Everton.

Then to West Ham where he inherited Declan Rice. He wouldn’t have had him at Everton.

Beyond that you have to assume that about 75% of the players he signed for West Ham – he’d have brought to Everton.

Out of those, he signed Soucek and Bowen would have improved the Everton team of that period. But not many others.

Robert,

Yes, I take the point on the kids, he will need help. I’m suspicious of Kinnear though, and his system. On what basis are we thinking this system will succeed? Does he have any track record of showing how his new flatter system will succeed?

Any system is only ever as good as the people inputting the data, and I would suggest with Brighton — whilst they may have efficiencies we can only dream of — they also have very capable people overseeing it.

I’m not sure Kinnear and his mates fit into that category. they may do; it’s all to play for. But the key figure at the club is Moyes.

Tommy #28,

I think this is one of those strange occasions where people who broadly agree with each other manage to have an argument on social media because we’re all chipping into a meandering conversation.

I’m not trying to say Moyes was a good fit as manager 2016 to 2021. Sadly I think he had a nervous breakdown or something like it after the Man Utd job and it took a long time for him to rebuild. It was more a comment on our crap transfer record at that point – and where we are now, responding to Kevin.

Tommy @11,

You gave me a right belly larf with this one:

with a view to fast-tracking them once acclimatised

Sorry, you can’t be talking about Everton and Moyes. More like hold ’em back until they kick and scream. Or just send ’em out on loan so they are not pestering you for a game.

I believe Moyes was disappointed to find that the 300 or so employees in recruitment that were there when he left had been cut back to less than 40 when he returned.

When you’re in with the big boys you need top people not the two Muppets that were previously in charge.

The whole club corporate strategy, marketing, football etc needs a major rethink which I am glad to say looks underway.

Robert and Ryan,

Hopefully we have learned. from the Moshiri era.

As I keep repeating myself, and I get the economics. It’s like the difference between shopping in Waitrose or Lidl.

I’m not denying what you say about expenditure Robert, but even now, It’s not always what you spend, it’s how you spend it. There is value for money out there.

Ryan, from what I’ve read, and heard, Moyes will influence. The recruitment team will do what is says on the tin. Then Moyes can agree or disagree. He may well get the final say, but it may not happen with every player.

Kevin, maybe a fair point. Moyes has uncovered a fair few hidden gems. But there were also a few expesive failures.

But then name me any manager or DoF who doesn’t have either?

See you there Bill.

Forget 84, you’ll be as young as what will then be my 54 when you enter that stadium!!

Frank #19, it makes a change though having the ‘Manchester Old Boys’ in our backroom staff rather than on the pitch.

This ‘flat’ recruitment system is just acknowlegement that there’s specialists in different fields and all contribute to the process.

I doubt very much that any manager ever discussed the fine print of a contract with any player or his agent.

So recruitment look at players and suggest them to the manager, he OKs them, finance set the budget and contract guys go do the negotiation and signing.

Call me a cynic if you wish but these appointments are similar to the manager ‘magic roundabouts’ one out and one in.

Is it ‘too many chiefs and not enough indians’ its to be hoped they turn out to be better than most of our appointments over the years.

There not Kinnear’s mates!!!. They were head hunted by the Nolan recruitment company.

Interesting clip from Boyland’s article:

“Cox has had interest from clubs in the Premier League and Europe, as well as governing bodies, but is believed to feel the prospect of working with Moyes, under new ownership as Everton enter a new stadium next season, is an opportunity too good to turn down.”

Must admit I had no idea Moyes carried this much of a reputation. Players coming to play for him? Certainly. Executives coming to work with him? Quite unexpected.

It’ll be interesting to see how the club handles this critical window without Smith or Cox fully aboard and the new scouting structure not yet pulled together.

@32 Michael. Moyes is a strange one.

Maybe he learned quite a bit as a young manager in his handling of Rooney. Because I remember being frustrated that he rarely completed 90 minutes at Everton yet was ever present as soon as he was available at Man Utd.

Since then, he gave fair opportunity to James Vaughan (when not injured), Rodwell, Gosling and various others such as Magaye Gueye and Vellios.

He never gave much opportunity to Ross Barkley, which was disappointing. And we didn’t see anybody feature towards the end of the season just gone despite us being comfortably safe for a number of weeks.

I think he tends to dither more with new signings. I find it very rare that, unless forced to do so, he will bring someone in and play them from the off in their best position.

Jagielka and Lescott were played out of position when they first arrived. Baines couldn’t get a game. He dithered over signing Arteta and played him on the right-hand side of midfield for a long time. He didn’t trust Seamus at right-back until 3 years after he started playing for us.

Wow, Tommy.

I thought it was just me who held those grudges!

But what about Jake O’Brien? Trying to recall if that was forced by injuries?